What I Learned in Comics: Rethinking Conventions
(Pledgemaster Tony D pimping Super Frat at Chicago Wizard World)
Hey Factory Fans!
Welcome to a new semi-regular column here at the factory where we share some of the wisdom we’ve accumulated over the years in the comic book/webcomic biz. For this column, I’d like to talk to you about comic book conventions.
Yours truly was quite the con participant over the last 15 years or so. At my peak, I did 35 conventions and/or appearances in a year. That’s about 3 a month, although it felt like every other day! (I missed a lot of Simpsons episodes that year. Thank God for Hulu!)
Most conventions are a blast. Even the weakest ones that don’t have a party will at least have a get-together with fellow creators. It’s an opportunity to network, catch up, exchange war stories or just geek-out with the like-minded. Over the years, I had worked my ass off to sell my self-published comics along with whatever my current publisher was trying to sell. I’d make some money, but as a writer, not much, and I’d count breaking even as a victory for my comic’s exposure and that of my illustrious writing career.
As I made the transition from print to webcomics, I began to notice the inevitable. Fans didn’t need conventions for the same reasons anymore. Before the Internet, conventions were the only way a fan could interact with you face to face. But with the advent of message boards, emails and comments sections of the blog, interaction could be daily and up-to-the-minute.
The Fan Quote
One fan’s comment had always stuck with me back in my print days. I was at a convention, a pretty good one for me. There were enough comics in the room to bring in comic fans, but I was one of only a handful of creators with serious-looking product. But it had been the fourth or fifth time I had done this show and I couldn’t understand why the local comic shops still didn’t carry my book. Then I started asking fans, “Hey, where do you buy my comic?” One of the fans got this incredulous look on his face, like I was asking a weird question and he responded. “You. I buy them from you.” When I prodded further and said something like, “Wouldn’t it be easier for you to buy them at a shop?” He shook his head and said, “No, I don’t go to those places. I know you’re here every year.”
That was the beginning of the end of me doing every convention within driving distance. I realized then that doing a convention once might be worth it, but twice, not really.
My Revelation
Things really came into focus at this year’s NYCC. I got a badge, but not a table. A friend of mine was having a wedding reception in New York, so I decided to forgo the con table and just swing by with my pro badge and network a little. In the 15 or so years I had been doing conventions, I never really attended one on the other side of the table.
The different perspective threw me somewhat. As the world’s most impatient human being, the displays in artists’ alley were jumbled. I was there to buy comics for my monthly review column and too many of the attendees were artists with little or no product or just guys offering to do sketches for money.
The place was packed so tight, I could barely move. And when I got to a crowded table, I tended to avoid it. I told myself I’d comeback, but I didn’t really have the time or a sharp enough memory to remember each table that was packed. So a thought occurred to me:
A convention of that size could never be financially viable for a small publisher like myself. I crunched the numbers in my head like this:
With the press of people in NYCC, you’d be lucky to talk and sell to a fan in under three minutes. Very lucky. Let’s say I am amazing and I can do just that. Add up all the hours over three days and you get 22 hours. One fan every three minutes is 20 an hour or 440 fans IF I’m lucky.
But realistically, I have to eat lunch and go to the bathroom at some point. So on two of the big days, I’d have to carve out a total of maybe an hour. that’s 420 fans. Some fans like to talk and talk and if they’re your fan, you can’t just brush them off. So let’s average out the 3 minutes to five. That’s 12 an hour times 21 hours is 252. The last two hours of the show, people start to pack up and if I’m in a row and everyone around me leaves, that really slow things down, so eliminate the last two hours. That’s 228 fans. And the mornings are slow too. Even in a place like the Javitz Center, it will take the fans a while to make it to Artists Alley and most will just look in the first half hour. That drops it to about 210 fans. And then you have “fans” who aren’t really your fan. Maybe your pitch sounded good initially, but they change their mind and leave your table promising to come back. Let’s just call it an even 200.
(Tony D signing books at the San Diego Comicon)
So if I do a big convention in New York, about the best I can hope for is to sell to 200 fans. At $5 a pop, that’s $1000. I have done this exactly ONCE in my 15 or so years selling comics. (Chicago Wizard World 2009 and that’s with some product that wasn’t even mine.) My second best show was Pittsburgh, 1999 I think. New Dimension Comics bought out my table at the end of the show. Back then, my comics were more like $2 and $3 and, of course, they got a discount on the 100 or so books they bought. Combine that with the books I sold to fans over three days and it was about 200 books total. Cashwise, it worked out to something like $375 gross.
But those numbers were gross profits. I had to get a plane ticket to Chicago ($400 because I booked late), ship the books via UPS (around $110), hotel for three days ($325 or so), food ($150) and incidentals. Plus, I had to split some of that money with my publisher and other creators. After that, it was all gone.
“Goodbye money!! Nice knowing you!” (Tony D on the con floor.)
Pittsburgh was even worse because back then I had a rule that I bought artists food too. So my food costs were double, but then reduced slightly because Pittsburgh buys you lunch. Instead of a plane ticket, I drove or rented a car or rode with an artist. Either way, I was on the hook for gas. Bottom line, all the money was gone before I even got home. My two best conventions, selling 200 books both times, and I still can’t really point to a significant profit. Meaning all the other comic book conventions were a loss financially.
But what about the exposure?
Sure, in Chicago I got exposure to the 200 fans that purchased and maybe another 50 or so that didn’t. In Pittsburgh, same deal and I networked a contact at New Dimension. At all these conventions I achieved some level of exposure depending on the fan turnout and my shining personality.
But as I stood in NYCC crunching the numbers in my head I thought, “What if I DIDN’T blow $500 to $1000 doing a convention and selling books? What if I put that money into my website?”
Let’s face it factory fans, if you’re going to build a webcomic, you have to promote and a comic book convention is a place to do that. But before you blow your wad on a fun-filled weekend of meeting fans, imagine what you can do with that money if you just spent it on Banner ads.
Hell, Project Wonderful ads are usually so cheap, I could buy an ad on the most popular webcomic out there, Questionable Content, for $150 a day for the top banner. That’s three to six days at the top. If I buy the side ad on the right, currently at $3, I could buy it for the year! QC gets hits in the 150K to 350K range. I’d only need 1/100th of the fans to get FIVE TIMES the amount of exposure I’d get a convention.
Plus I get to stay home and work on more comics.
The Changing Fan Base
This year I did a convention that I like. I won’t mention the name. It’s a great show, run by great people and attended by great fans. The only problem is, no one bought comics. The fans mostly bought original art from artists. When they got to a table like mine, most of them asked, “Do you have a website?” They’d take a flyer and go. That was it. No sale. I wasn’t even offsetting the costs. I could’ve mailed the flyers out and saved myself $500 bucks and a whole lot of effort.
Even better, I could’ve bought an ad in the convention program book. For $500 I get a full color ad in a guide that everyone who attends the convention sees, plus they will probably take it home and it will have my website address. That’s probably going to reach more than 200 fans. I won’t have the sales, but I won’t have the other expenses either.
Smaller Cons are Better
I came to the conclusion that there is no point in me doing a big convention like NYCC. None. I can’t get the exposure unless I’m at a booth, which I won’t get until I’m famous enough that they’ll either give me one or wealthy enough to buy one and hire a small staff to man it.
I could usually reach about 10% of the fans in a smaller con, so to reach about 200, all I need to do is to attended cons that attract about 2000 or so fans. Additionally, if I go to a smaller con, my expenses tend to be lower. Lower hotel bill, cheaper sections of town mean lower food bill and probably it will be closer to my house, so cheaper gas and no plane ride.
The Mailer
And Hell, if all I’m doing at conventions is passing out my flyer with the URL, all that needs to happen is to get my flyer to all the big conventions. That $500 can be invested into printing nice, glossy, color postcards which can then be mailed to conventions. They get put out on the freebie table and the table does my job for me.
“My God, I’m at home getting work done and I don’ t have to lift any stupid heavy boxes of comics! Thank you banner ads!”
The Conclusion
Comic Book Conventions may be going the way of the dodo, Factory Fans, at least for yours truly. Until the big conventions roll out free hotel, table, travel and food for me, I’ll probably be better off spending my money on banner ads, program adverts and flyers sent directly to the freebie table. 2011 looks like the Year of Staying Home. Hmmm, I’ll miss you fanboys, but at least I won’t miss the Simpsons.
Discussion (41) ¬
Thanks for this blog Tony. As someone who has thought about trying to get into the industry, and done my share of cons, this blog had alot of insightful information. i had never thought of the con to ad space ratio before. i was always of the mind set that if you have a comic, the only way to push it is to do the convention circuit. Which means after hotel bills, food bills, and drinking bills, financially, you are definitely in the black and you better have a “real” job to back you up on this. Which once again shows that one should work smarter, not harder. Thanks Tony.
No problemo. It was actually quite a shock to me! All this time I had kind of gotten sucked into the lifestyle and forgot about the money end. Prior to the Internet, you didn’t have much choice, but now, forget it.
There’s no point in either Tony or I attending a convention unless the organizers pay for everything. We’re way too busy working on the comics and promoting online to step away. If either of us (or both) were invited the convention organizers could be assured we’d put the full might of The Webcomic Factory behind them. One hand washes the other. Until that day, I gotta attend to business. Sadly slogging books and passing out fliers at conventions doesn’t help our business model.
Hey guys! Sounds like you finally figured out why I haven’t done shows since 2005 or so. Tony, I remember the days of your megaphone and sacrificing Liefeld comics, Hahah. (at least I’m almost positive that was you guys from Jersey!) but I digress… A friend of mine asked why I turned down a few shows that actually offered to put me up, and I explained id be more stressed out because of the work and deadlines I’d be missing.
Also, heres a big tip, forget the project wonderful stuff and put the same money into targeted ads on Facebook and you will see much more quality traffic. I also suggest having a Facebook a’s link to your projects facebOok page which can act like a mini fanclub and interest engine. The key is finding new people in your interest or niche of your project.
Only downside to not doing shows is missing the regular friends and face to face networking. An occasional big show can appease that and video blogging or blogging like you’re doing here can aid in putting a friendly face to your name. Great post
Thanks DJ!
I am experiencing the same kind of thing at shows. As a comic artist that actually draws sequel comic pages for comics. I get frustrated when I am at a show that has a lot of sketch artist that only draw pinups to sell at conventions and never have drawn sequel pages. I guess it is my own fault 🙂 I could spend all my time drawing pinups for shows and commissions. I would make a lot more money but IF I did that The Horror of Colony 6, The Curse of Cullen, CapeTown, etc would not exist. That is the price I pay to see comics come to life 🙂
I have made a lot of friend at conventions though and I look at it as my getaway. It is a lot of fun for me. I just can’t do to many a year or they will break me.
Yeah, I used to encourage artist to draw pin ups of other characters for the money, but there’s just too many at shows now. And it’s really bad when an artist shows up with an entire table dedicated to just drawing pin ups of other characters for money. It’s like, is this the reason you got into comics? To help promote the comics everyone already reads?
Why the hate/dislike for sketch artists who do pinups at cons?
I wouldn’t call it hate. I can’t fault someone for trying to make some money, especially at a convention. But it seems to me if your ONLY reason to come to a con is to sell pin ups, there’s something wrong. At least if you have a comic, you are a participating pro. But then again, how would you feel if Marvel artist drew your character and sold it for $100 and didn’t give you a cut? I gotta think that wouldn’t sit right with you.
Actually, if a Marvel artist wants to draw one of my characters and sell it for whatever price they want, more power to them. My character is then getting circulated somewhere that I probably didn’t get to. If Marvel doesn’t have a problem with me drawing their characters, then it would be hypocritical of me to get upset with a Marvel artist drawing my character. That’s just professional courtesy and the current nature of the business.
But what’s the definition of a participating pro? Someone who does sequential art? I don’t recall seeing any cons that have a qualifier on there of ‘sequential artists only’. Granted, I DO see some with the stipulation that you be a published professional, but they consider sketch card artists who have been published to be ‘professionals’ simply because their work has been published; how is a sketch card artist different from a pinup artist? They don’t do sequential art, and odds are that they’re not going to be drawing sketches at a con solely of the characters they drew in their sketch card set. Is a webcomic creator/artist considered to be published? Are they a participating pro? If so, why? I know many web comic creators/writers/artists who only do it as a hobby, and make very little, if any, money at it. Are they considered a participating pro over a full time freelance pinup artist? So what is the definition of a pro? Someone who makes a living doing art, or someone doing sequentials as a second job? I make a small fortune doing pinups at cons, and I know for a fact that I make a lot more money at a con than what many convention promoters consider to be published professionals, whether it be guys who have been published doing trading cards or guys doing sequential work for major publishers; I know this because these professionals come up and talk to me about it, about how I’m doing the business I’m doing. Am I any less of a participating pro when I’m the one making a living as a freelancing pinup artist who DOESN’T do sequential art or who ISN’T published? At the end of day, I’m taking requests, and drawing what the public is asking me to draw.
I only pursue this conversation to get a better understanding of where some of the…issues, I guess we’ll call it, that others have in relation to pinup artists come from, because the only thing I can seem to pin it on is jealousy of some sort (and please forgive me if that comes across as making a personal accusation to you in particular, because it isn’t. Like I said, I’m just trying to understand the bias I’ve experienced from others in general).
I thrive on competition, and if there’s someone out there doing more business than me at a con, then I see it as a challenge to do better. If the convention has approved someone to be in artist alley, hurray for them, I wish them well. They’ll succeed or fail based on the merits of their art, regardless of the subject matter. From what I’ve seen, the buying public at a con is mostly interested in buying art based on existing characters that they’re familiar with. If Marvel, DC, etc. is okay with it, then why is it a problem to others?
BTW, I enjoyed your column. Like I said, having worked in retail advertising for 10 years, the marketing whore in me is fascinated by what sales and what doesn’t at conventions.
Enjoyable read! I learned a bunch at the two cons I went to as well. I was at the cons representing about 40 artists – and I was promoting webcomics only, so my setup was very different than yours, of course, but some things I learned were similar.
My experience is that most attendees (95%) do not browse at all – they don’t stop, they are there generally far less interested than I had expected to try new things. (When I pay to get into a show, I tend to wander and browse… I guess I’m unusual). To the Pitts con, I brought a 47″ monitor and was showing off 13 series of new webcomics with graphic novel quality art, voice-over narration, music and had Ernie Chan sitting with me and couldn’t get much attention – that was eye opening for sure! (That con ended up more expensive to do than NYCC… go figure).
The economics of the con in my experience were about 1/5th as fruitful as yours and I had better results with Proj Wonderful than you did – so it ended up a complete no-brainer to focus on online marketing. I attributed about 300 sales after the NYCC con – mostly because I stood in the isle and handed out postcards – which was pretty effective (although I didn’t need a booth for that!)
From a business point of view, cons are mostly a losing proposition. I know we all do this because we love it – and when you are in that boat, you often search for a reason to do it (even if it just doesn’t make sense any way you cut it financially). But, in evaluating time and money, I really can’t get past the effectiveness of online advertising vs the monster cost and time of cons. So, I ended up at the same conclusion, although I came from a totally different approach than you did! Interesting.
Thank you for your comments! Tony and I are glad to have made the switch to mostly online. We’re all still doing the same thing and that’s making comics!
Regarding drawing pinups, it’s simply a matter of catering to the crowd. I do a webcomic, and I try and sell prints and xeroxed mini-comics, but the majority of my money comes from selling sketches. I usually try to inject them with my own brand of sense of humour and be a little bit different, but still, it’s just selling corporate characters. But this is what they want!
darkbrain said it before me – most people aren’t looking for new stuff. (I do. In fact, it’s all I look for when I walk around.) I had a poster up at NYCC of Robin playing video games on the couch and Batman telling him to get out there and fight crime, and that’s all I needed to get people to stop. It’s almost as if getting a new reader is just a side bonus, and not the main focus of this type of ‘reeling ’em in’. But I find it can also get me a better quality of reader. We start talking about other comic interests, find some common ground, and then I turn the subject to my comic. Five people cultivated this way over half an hour is way better (to me) than giving out a stack of promo postcards to 100s that will inevitably end up in the bin, or worse… Walking out of the hall when it’s all over and seeing them everywhere on the ground! Crushing!
Bottom line, I can almost make my money back doing corporate character sketches, but not selling my little mini-comics, plus I get some quality readers!
The other bonus to cons is actually talking to real people. I spend so much time surrounded by the same four walls and my little blue glow of computer, cons are like little islands of sanity.
“Regarding drawing pinups, it’s simply a matter of catering to the crowd.”
Amen, brother! If your goal at a con is to make money, then you need to be willing to give the crowd what they want to spend money on. 🙂
Happy that you are able to do well and have found a market. Everyone needs to make a living. For me I’m in the business of creating new ideas and monetizing them so the time/sweat equity put in vs working on Big 2 characters doesn’t work out. I actually make more in the long run on my own stuff (including properties created with Tony D) than I would accepting a page rate from Marvel and DC to write issues of Batman etc…
Well, yes and no. Fans are looking for something new, but people attending a convention are usually looking for a specific collectible. They are not always the same thing. It also depends upon the convention. Hardcore comic cons tend to be about the high roller collectors and the dealers, so you’re essentially getting what’s left after they bought that missing issue of Superman they’ve been looking for and whoever drifts in for a Wrestler autograph. At shows were comics aren’t totally the focus, the crowds tend to be a little more “shoppy” because they’ve come into browse. The show I used to do in Wildwood, NJ in the summers was great for that because almost everyone that came in was on vacation, looking to buy something because they were just blowing all their money on vacation anyway.
I agree with looking for common ground. That’s why I found that going to events that were non-comic related, but related to my comic usually did real well for me. The Travelers sold okay at comic cons, but at gaming conventions it did gangbusters because it was aimed at the D&D RPG crowd and I wasn’t competing with that many comic publishers, if any. The Jersey Devil sold well at Haunted Houses because I was the only vendor with comic books. I even sold it once at a rock concert and at several regional craft fairs where the Jersey Devil was a tourist attraction.
Unfortunately, those shows tended not to give out tables, so you had to be more businesslike about the whole approach. No one at those shows ever asked me for a Spiderman sketch.
Perhaps we can continue this discussion in the forum?
http://www.thewebcomicfactory.com/forum-2/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=11.0#postid-21
Reply to Michael: (for some reason, I can’t reply directly to your post)
There is a legal issue there, in that, if you were to allow another artist to draw and sell your character, are you in fact laying the groundwork to allow anyone to do that, no matter how much money they are making off that character? From a legal perspective, it’s an extremely gray area.
Sure, exposure is great, when you’re unknown. But when you’re a known entity (and assuming everyone is working toward that), you’ve earned your exposure. Now you’re trying to make your money.
I think you’re a pro when you’ve been paid. That being said, there are many levels of pro, but it basically splits into “vanity publishers” and “professional publishers”. Vanity publishers are hobbyist. They are usually backed by one guy with some money, who has always dreamed of making a comic book. Professional publishers are ones where they set up a business to make money publishing.
So sure, sketch card guys or even guys that have had a pin up published for money are pros. Because they’ve invested their time, gotten a return on their investment and as pros, have a reputation that’s at stake for the next assignment.
As a publisher at a convention, I am there to sell comic books. Part of the reason I wrote that article is because conventions, for me as a publisher and a writer, have always been a loss. That loss has been, to some degree, because money that would otherwise be spent on comics is going to pin ups. If those artists had to do original characters for their pin ups, I can compete somewhat (it’s still comic vs. original art, a different argument), but I cannot compete with the entire character line up of Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, video game characters, etc. If I could put THEM in my comics, then I could. But if I did that, it would be considered copyright infringement. The printer wouldn’t even print it if I did had them drawn up. The best I could do is a parody of said characters, but even then, the law states that it has to be a clear parody. If its too close, as Dave Sim’s Wolveroach was back in the 80’s, I could get sued.
From a convention stand point there’s absolutely no reason to “enforce a bar” to artist alley, especially if you’re selling the tables. From a fan stand point there is also no reason. Fans want what they want. Most don’t care how they get it.
From a comic book/webcomic industry stand point it may be hurting readership in the long term. Each medium or industry or whatever, tends to grow where the money is. Therefore, if the money in artist alley tends to be doing pin ups of established characters then that will tend to drive original characters out of the conventions. (Artist alley usually being the place to get in at the ground floor.)
The money then will tend to drive creators toward more and more corporate owned characters, not only when doing pin ups, but when they finally pull something together on their own. This is probably why so many of the independent comics I see (and I’ve reviewed hundreds of them over the years: http://thefixsite.com/sjrp/lookin.html) tend to be pale imitations of Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.
So it becomes one of the factors in the creative stagnation of the comics medium as a whole, feeding into a vicious cycle of, “Well, you have to do something the fans like, but the fans only like superheroes because superheroes only sell.”
For as long as I’ve been in comics this kind of behavior has been taught to fans at an early age. Time and time again I’d see some publisher launch a kids comic book because he wanted to broaden that market, but when the kid comes to the table, instead of drawing his character, he draws Spiderman because the kid’s dad will pay for that pin up.
At the New York Comic Con, Artist Alley was choked with guys doing pin ups. I mean, there were whole rows of them. Meanwhile, there’s a guy from Brazil that paints his comics on the walls of Rio De Janeiro and takes photos. No offense, but THAT’S amazing. Drawing Spiderman? A skill, but not nearly as amazing. He, like most creators, was struggling to sell his book, while pin up guys were cranking out the pages. Why should he have to share the same space as the pin up guys with no published work? This guy had something interesting and new and dynamic. He should be lauded for his efforts for expanding the medium. Instead the $20 he should get for his BOOK, is going to an artist who sells a sketch or a print.
That’s making a clear statement to the fans, creators and publishers. I’m saying, it’s time to change that statement. Maybe there should be a bar for getting into artist’s alley. Money is one way, but that’s not always a good gauge. I’ve been to smaller cons that specifically only limited numbers of certain kinds of dealers in the room: Two Golden Age Dealers, Two Toy Guys, Two Current Comic Guys, Two Silver Age, etc. Why couldn’t we do that with artist’s alley? Or better still, split artist alley into “amateurs” and “pros”?
Also, I think there’s a world a different between a guy who drew Spiderman drawing and selling Spiderman pin ups and a guy who has never drawn Spiderman selling them. A pro who has already been hired to draw Spiderman is not going to hurt their brand or draw something unsavory.
Also, there’s Chris Flick at Capes & Babes. His webcomic is a total parody of comics, so he draws superheroes all the time. That, to me, would also be an exception since that’s what his comic book is about.
Then, by contrast, there’s Intervention Con, a webcomic con. There it seemed the emphasis was on story rather than art. People bought pin ups, but I don’t think most of them were superheroes. (Well, Chris Flick was there, so I’m not sure.)
But the bottom line, it’s about money. If the money’s not there, I’ll move on to greener pastures and so will the other creators/writers/publishers. So then, what are you left with? A giant room full of artists competing to draw the best Galactus? An industry that emphasizes only art and rarely the story? Creators that endlessly “create” variations on a theme making the fanbase smaller and smaller?
Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate the pin-up guy business.
That would force artist to create and push there own ideas. It would not be good for quick cash but I think it would even encourage the fan to look out side of the big three comic publishers.
As an artist who does both sequential art and pin up art I feel like you raise some very valid points, however I have to strongly disagree with you on some others. I was actually sitting next to the artist from Brazil you mentioned (his name is Tito Na Rua for all who are interested – http://www.titonarua.com he does amazing work – Tony I hope you picked up one of his books :D) we’ve done shows together for a few years now. Our contrasting styles mean that we never have to compete with each other for sales and we usually are able to kick some business to the others direction if a fan takes interest in the others work. While I typically attract the fans interested in “mainstream” comic art while he typically draws a crowd interested in art outside of the mainstream. Its a formula thats worked well for us for a while now.
Now at this past NYCC my own portfolios consisted of mainly pin ups & prints of major publishers characters, as my own comic wasn’t ready at the time so I may even be one of those artists you’re talking about. Now having built up a small fanbase online I had quite a few people looking for me specifically to buy my work but they chose both prints and pinups of ‘popular characters’ because I think the majority of those fans want to buy what they are familiar with. And while almost all of them asked when was I going to have my comic ready, none of them bought any of my original stuff instead going for the Marvel/DC stuff.
This has happened now at almost every show I’ve done; I’ll sell out of any and all images of Spider-Man, Supes, etc. and wind up bringing home all of my original artwork. So it eventually gets to the point as a retailer, that it simply makes sense to give the consumer what they want. Which brings me to another point which was touched on earlier, and thats once you decide that you have something you want to sell and you’re using the cons to sell it, you have to then think like a retailer. And as a retailer if I see certain pieces aren’t moving then those pieces go back in the back while those 30 requests for Spider-Man mean that those pieces go up font so I can make sure I can fill that demand. As much as I’d love for my own work to be sought after that strongly, it simply isnt the case right now. And after dropping roughly $1000 on hotel/airfare/table fees it only makes sense that I’d want to earn part or all of that money back, and if the only way to do that is to push pinups and prints then I have to do what I have to do. Now does this mean that I totally ignore or fail to promote my own original work? No, as I use each customer interaction as an opportunity to tell them about the book I’m working on and what website they could go to see it. So I considered every print or pinup sale as a win/win and the spike I saw on my sites stats after the show told me that I was doing something right in that regard.
As for restricting and or segregating artists alley, I flat out think thats way off. For one, I dont think anybody outside of the promoters should really be dictating or even thinking of dictating who should be in the alley. And as its name implies its for ‘artists’, whether they be pinup or sequential artists. I’ve long heard the argument against so-called pinup artists and to me its always stuck me as sour grapes, as it seems that the only people with a gripe against them are artists who have a tough time selling their wares. But the reality is the consumer is going to buy what they want, and if you dont have what they want then they’ll simply hold onto their money and move on to the next table. I missed out on a few sales simply by not having characters in my portfolio that people wanted, so I could imagine how much more I would have missed if I didnt even have the ‘type’ of art they were looking for. Removing the pinup artists from the alley isnt going to boost your sales, it just makes for an emptier alley. From my own experience both from when I was a fan just attending and now as an exhibitor what I see is the fans heading straight for tables either featuring their favorite artists or for the tables where theres work similar in style to their favorite artists. They dont want a ‘Captain Courageous’ mini comic, they want what they’re already familiar with. After some mainstream success they’ll snatch up Captain Courageous like hotcakes since now its original artwork by someone they consider to be famous thus increasing its value to them. But as an unknown its like ice skating uphill trying to sell something very few people are familiar with. And I think if theres any issue here that really needs to be addressed its that, address the fans desire to have a pinup of a half naked She-Hulk as opposed to a wholly original piece of work instead of going after the artists who are willing to fulfill that desire. Devote more time & effort in promoting yourself and educating the consumer as it were than simply trying to eliminate the competition. Or maybe even looking into different exhibition options outside of artists alley. I hope that I’m not coming off as negative or attacking as its sincerely not the case, I simply believe theres room at the table for everyone to eat and it kind of jabs at me whenever I hear other artists railing against pinup artists. Whether you’re the next Adam Hughes or the next Charles Shultz theres a chance to be successful in this medium and in artists alley, provided you’re marketing yourself correctly.
I’d also like to add that since NYCC I’ve now done a few covers for some mid-tier publishers and this was based solely upon the pin-ups they saw in my portfolio. Now as time progresses (and hopefully with more assignments) this will give me the chance to spotlight my own original stories as I continue try to make a name for myself, so being a pinup artist isn’t entirely a negative thing.
First, glad our mutual friend did well at the show. He deserves it.
But by your logic “as a retailer”, you’re cutting off your nose despite your face by doing original pin ups. As you said, the fans aren’t interested in that, so why bother? Plus, it sounds to me as if you didn’t finish your original stuff for the show, but you did manage to finish your Marvel/DC pin ups? I don’t recall, but I don’t think your buddy had any pin ups of Iron Man or Luke Skywalker. He didn’t need them. What he was doing was far more interesting.
I can’t knock you guys for wanting to make a buck in Artists’ Alley, believe me, I know how tough it is. But are you really putting your best foot forward with your original material when you split the time doing these sorts of pin ups? The time you spend doing that could be used to further promote your original material. And that lost effort could make the difference, I say.
I think there’s also something to be said for a guy who wants to break in at Marvel or DC. If I was that kind of artist, I’d think sure, these are the kinds of pin ups I want to be doing. Everything on my table should be superheroes.
A creator who comes to a show, just with his original work, gives off a different vibe than one with superhero pinups and original work. Essentially, the two items compete on the table. And ultimately, the fan is going to be the judge. In a big show like NYCC, the superheroes are probably going to win out. Maybe the Manga stuff once in a while.
Look at it like this: Let’s say you made soup instead of comics. And you went to a soup convention. You’d have samples of your soup for people to try. Wouldn’t it also be weird to have samples of your version of Campbells? Campbells Soup would already be there, already dominate the show. Why give them extra publicity when you’re trying to sell YOUR soup?
And what will happen when Marvel and DC decide to scale back their comic book operations? You want fans to read your independent comic book, yet half your table is promoting the same old stuff they can get anywhere? Why get a pin up of Iron Man from an artist I’ve never heard of, when I get can one from a guy who actually works at Marvel?
As far as splitting the room, well that’s up to the con organizers. They’re going to do what’s best for their bottom line. Some charge, some don’t, some have 2 tables, some have 200, some half full tables, some have half. You have no say over it, you either go to the show or not. You either pay or don’t. The con organizers will either decide its a good idea or not. They probably won’t change anything unless the get some complaints.
Don’t worry, I don’t take your comments personally or anything. I think webcomics will greatly change the dynamic of Artists’ Alley. Pin ups of superheroes might finally start to slip as the Comics Industry Money Pie gets split by more than just the major print publishers. I, for one, don’t know how I’d feel about artists doing pin ups of my characters and making money from it (unless it was the artist I worked with). If I’m a millionaire, I’d probably wouldn’t care, but if I’m still in the convention hall…
As a small publisher myself, I understand your view and agree with some of the points you are making. However, I disagree with smaller con being better due to a lot of small press publisher choose to be in Artist Alley than in the front with booth. I been to too many smaller cons where there were little to no traffic at all through the main doors. Rather I am in Artist Alley or on the exhibit floor for these smaller cons, no people showing up is no people showing up to buy, browse or ask questions. It has been a problem for me in the smaller cons in the mid-west. It been no traffic coming in the main doors or lack of promotion from the show promoter to get people to come.
Definitely a problem. It totally depends on the traffic. I, too, have attended cons like that on the East Coast! But I also noticed that I will usually do significantly better at a small con that I’ve never been to that has some traffic (even low traffic) rather than a larger, more trafficked convention that I’ve been to a few times. You just see the same fans over and over.
Tony,
This has been a great debate! I want to thank you for getting this kind of issues-driven discussion going. I can’t help but throw in my two cents.
I was a retailer for 16 years and set up at a variety of convention types over about 12 years of that. In the past three years I’ve changed sides of the table and now organize Comicpalooza, the comic convention in Houston, Texas (pardon the shameless plug). I’ve got two sets of comments, one on the retail side and one on the con business side.
1) I see this all the time among artists and small publishers, so please don’t take this as a knock. I think your retail marketing kung fu is a little weak. You guys are all exactly right when you say setting up at a con is all about the money, and Tony your evaluation of the numbers vs. time is spot on. However, going into a con you have to remember that as an event it is in most cases and for most exhibitors first a retail experience and second a promotional experience. This might be counter to your objectives, but the best way to make your promotional objectives attainable is to make sure the retail is taken care of also. As a retailer going to cons, I had a few rules. The first was to hit as many price points as I could. The second was to hit as many demographics as I could. If you’re getting only 100 customers who really like your book and buy an average of 2 $3 books from you, that sucks. If 20 of those people also buy your webcomic character’s T-shirt for $20, another 25 buy your $1 button, and 6 people buy an original piece of your artwork for $50-$100, well that’s a game changer right there, and that was just the first couple of things off the top of my head. And from a marketing point of view, selling 20 t-shirts with your character and website on them is probably more real exposure over the next year than handing out 500 or maybe even 1000 flyers. As writers and artists you are (appropriately) very focused on creating what you want to create, but you have to extend your creations to be successful properties as well as good stories and art.
2) I see a con’s greatest potential as that of a promotional platform, and that is how we approach Comicpalooza. In 2008 Comicpalooza wasn’t even a convention; it was a 6-hour promotional event I held to help support local comic creators. Everyone got interviewed. Our event has continued to grow as a promotional vehicle. Just over the past couple of weeks you could go to mania.com, geekscape.net, and the Albuquerque Journal and find articles on Firebreather, the Cartoon Network animated movie based on Andy Kuhn & Phil Hester’s Firebreather comic. Those three pieces happened because we approached the editors and pitched the idea of interviewing Andy. Andy is a guest at Comicpalooza 2011 and this is the sort of extreme effort we put into supporting our guests and publishers. While we can’t guarantee this level of coverage for every guest or small publisher, we do manage to draw coverage for a number of our people every year, and that number is rising. Hopefully these observations give a few people out there some more options when it comes to handling con appearances.
Thank you for your hard work in our favorite hobby Tony!
Good points! Shirts can be a great source of revenue, but they also require more start up capital. And unlike comics where you can sell a “weaker” issue if its part of a run or has a bad cover or something, if you don’t hit on a T-shirt design people like, it becomes nearly impossible to sell the shirts.
Then there’s sizes, which drove me nuts the first time I did T-shirts. Fans asked me for everything from baby-T’s to XXXXXL. No kidding, five X’s. That means more crap to carry.
Comicpalooza sounds pretty awesome. Yeah, exposure is definitely the key and totally worth it if you can get on TV. I don’t mean to sound down on ALL cons. Some are very well covered, like San Diego. But TV people tend to turn a con like that into a freak show segment, so if you’re not in costume, forget it. Then you’re looking at a 2 second slot of “Hey! Look at this guy!”
I am wondering if you can get that same exposure without a table. I just did Philcon, a Science Fiction convention, and all I did were panels and no table. That provided me with some exposure, but I didn’t have to spend money on a table or spend all day there. Plus I could also network. But I have to say this, I saw maybe 30 fans in all my panels total, but I got over 50 hits from a link from one of the panelists. One could argue that I wouldn’t have gotten the link if I hadn’t met him personally, but I might’ve and have still gotten links without leaving my computer.
Yeah, I love how they portray Comic Con on shows likes Entourage and Bored to Death (which was created by a guy who actually did a decent comic — he should be ashamed!)
Great article! very informative about the industry in the States!
Thanks Chris. What’s it like near you?
Tony, that’s really great experience to be shared, this giving me a perspective to figure out what will happen if I attending or rent a booth at a con. Well, actually I never attend to a small or big con overseas. I even never go abroad 😀 haha…. may be one day.
Okay, first off… I gotta say thanks Tony for mentioning me in on of your replies above. I was just looking over my site stats the other day and now i think i know where and why i got such a huge spike jump in my numbers. Obviously, it was people checking me out from your reply. 🙂
Now that the “sucking up” is out of the way, here’s what I gots ta say…
I wonder if some of the struggles you write about might be an artist vs. writer thing? Besides you, Tony, I have another friend of mine, Rob Anderson who is also strictly a writer. Rob recently launched his own comic book, Animal Control (check out his website at http://www.pandadogpress.com) and has started going to conventions as well. In his first year, Rob has exhibited at Heroes, Baltimore and the 2 -day NC Comic Con. In fact, we sat next to each other at Baltimore, across the aisle at Heroes and roomed together at the NC show. this past weekend, we both attended a VERY small one-day show in our area (more on that in just a second).
I mention Rob because, as a writer, I hear from him similar things of what you just wrote about, Tony. As strictly a writer, he’s fond of telling me how much of an advantage I have over him when it comes to selling stuff at cons because I am able to create custom artwork on the spot and that more people at conventions just tend to be more interested in art than writing 9at least until your independent comic book becomes the newest AMC hit, anyway).
But I also remind him that even though I can create custom art at a convention, I actually tend to lose potential customers every time I am engrossed in producing that artwork. I have to look down to draw, ink and color a commission and every moment I’m doing that, i know I’m losing potential customers as they walk by my table and I’m not “engaging them”. Whereas, as writer, you two can fully engage fans the full time you’re at your table. So sometimes, I think it’s a wash when it comes to who has an advantage and who doesn’t.
In terms of Pros vs. Hobbyist:
I’m ambivalent about this. I’m not so sure I can get behind this idea. mainly because my own personal experiences. Some of my best shows is when i have sat beside a “pro” in artist alley. It also helped me tremendously that the “pro” did realistic pin-ups as well. For whatever reason, every time I sat beside an artist who had a realistic style, I’ve done extremely well due to the fact that I am a cartoonist and have an extreme, animated cartoon style. It’s when I sat close to a guy who had a similar style that I’ve done pretty bad. twice now, I’ve had the misfortune of sitting close to Chris Giarrusso (Baltimore 2008 and NC Comic Con 2010) and neither time have I done as well as I thought I’d do. So for me, it’s not a question of pro vs. hobbyist as much as it is style vs. similar style.
Big shows vs. Little shows (and a new kind of show I call the “white box show”)…
I absolutely agree with your assessment about big shows like San Diego or New York. I haven’t even THOUGHT about attending those shows because I would go home broke. However, like you, I seem to do pretty well at medium sized shows like Heroes, Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Those are the three shows I’ll always try to go to because they are in easy driving distance (I always go to Heroes with two really good friends), and I seem to slowly be picking up a fan base at all of these shows.
I will do the two day VA and NC Comic Con shows again but I’m really going to re-think doing one-day shows any more. these one day shows are what I call “white box shows” where people pay $5 to peruse through white box after white box looking for that .50 cent X-men 236 issue they don’t have. They last thing they are looking for in shows like this is forking over money for original art – no matter how cheap it might be.
Pin-ups and other stuff I sell at conventions:
As you mentioned before, Tony, I may be pretty unique when it comes to this subject since my webcomic takes place IN a comic book store and it occasionally spoofs and satirizes actual super-heroes. so for me, doing cartoon pin-ups of all the major comic book characters at conventions is a no-brainer for me. The way I try to be different from the wall-to-wall pin-up artists is by embracing and pitching my humor… “The full color commission is $XX but the humor’s 100% FREE!”.
I think that pitch seems to help me out quite a bit.
And just yesterday, I was having an online discussion with Tyler James – another great convention friend of mine – and we were discussing item pricing on our tables. I used to try and make sure i had stuff below $5 on my table (like buttons) but those just seemed to be extremely hard to sell for whatever reason. Now, almost everything on my table is $5 and up and that seems to have worked out quite nicely for me as well.
In addition, I have also stopped selling stuff with uneven prices. For example, I used to sell my book at $17 but have since experimented with selling it at $15 instead. The $2 discount has seen exceptional results. And, I don’t have to worry about bringing large amounts of ones with me to each con. Having everything in the $5, $10, $15, $20 & $30 range has been extremely beneficial to me.
I have more to say but I typed this thing out long enough and need to grab some lunch. If I have time, I’ll come back and add some more thoughts on this subject.
Hey Chris! Just saw your post. I think you make some good points. Writers definitely have the time advantage over artists at a con, while artist have the money advantage.
Maybe limiting the amount of pin up guys is the answer. I’ve done shows where organizers have limited certain kinds of vendors and I think that helps a great deal.
Yeah, I think your comic is one of those rare exceptions with regard to pin ups because it does center around a comic book store. If I were Marvel or DC, I think I would consider your pin ups parodies, since they tend to be in a style that is not that of the comic book, plus they are funny. Comedy is the out.
I think the problem with pin up guys is when they mislead fans, whether consciously or unconsciously, into believing they are pros for the pin up characters they are drawing. I mean, if a fan comes up to you and requests an Iron Man, I think you need to inform that fan, “You know I don’t draw Iron Man, right? I mean, I can, but I’m not one of the Iron Man artists.” Fans, especially little kids, just assume that if you’re behind the table and you have pin ups of Marvel and DC characters, you must work for them. Even as a writer, I’ve had fans come up to me and say, “Do you work for Marvel? Do you work for DC comics?” Even though there is absolutely no evidence that I’ve ever worked for the big two. Sure, most fans know, but some do not.
I understand the temptation. For myself, I once gave a talk to a 3rd grade class and passed out some of my old store bought comics, since the kids were too young for mine. They insisted I sign them. I explained I didn’t make those comics, but they didn’t care. So I signed them. If I hadn’t explained that I didn’t make them, I would be misleading them by information omission.
That’s my biggest gripe with the industry as a whole. It’s already this confusing mishmash of fan/retailer/creator/convention stuff and most artists just sit at their tables like lumps without saying more than two words. Con organizers are often guilty of the same kind of thing. They explain certain areas of the con, but not others. Each convention, especially the big ones, ought to have a “Convention 101” section in their program explaining the deal. I mean, how hard is it to put, “Artists Alley: This is the area where comic book creators sell everything from sketches to independently produced comic books you won’t see anywhere else.”
Again, I think Artist Alley should be split into “Pin up Artists”, “Webcomics”, “Independent Publishers”, etc. Or maybe name tags could be color coded as “Artist”, “Publisher”, “Creator”, “Writer”, etc. I’ve seen that done at Sci-Fi Cons.
Heya Tony!,
I know meeting you at a Con was a highlight for me; (even though you seemed distraught at the time). So even if you were to go to network once in awhile. I think it’s worth it. Word of Mouth rocks.
Definitely. And I think, for me, Webcomic Cons are going to be worth going to for networking. The print comic conventions, not as much. It’s not like I’m stopping cons forever or all together. It’s just in these tough economic times, I think you have to reassess where your money goes. And if you only have $500 to blow for your summer and need a return, a print comic book convention may only get you so much.